Teachers'''' and students'''' perception and attitudes to the application of New Dynamic English at Hanoi University of Business and Technology

iv TABLE OF CONTENTS DECLARATION i ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS ii ABSTRACT iii TABLE OF CONTENTS iv LIST OF ABBREVIATIONS vii LIST OF FIGURES AND TABLES viii PARTA:INTRODUCTION………………………………………………………… I.Rationale of the study……………………………………………………………… II Purposes of the study………………………………………………………… III Scope of the study…………………………………………………………… IV Methodology of the study…………………………………………………… V Significance of the study…………………………………………………… PART B: DEVELOPMENT………………………………………………………… Chapter one : Review of Literature………………………………………………… 1.1 Computer assisted language learning(CALL)………………………………… 2 2 4 1.1.1 What is CALL? 1.1.2 Impacts of CALL on language learning and teaching………………………… 4 1.1.3 Lance Knowles( 2004)’ CALL………………………………………………… 1.2 Blended Learning(BL) model…………………………………………………… 1.2.1 Definition of BL……………………………………………………………… 1.2.2 Differences between blended learning and traditional classroom learning(TCL)………………………………………………………………………… 1.3 Dyned language learning programme…………………………………………… 1.3.1 Overview……………………………………………………………………… 1.3.2 The Dyned Advantages……………………………………………………… 1.4 New Dynamic English………………………………………………………… 1.5 Attitudes ……………………………………………………………………… 1.5.1 Definition……………………………………………………………… 10 10 1.5.2 Effects of attitudes in language teaching and studying……………………… 11 1.5.3 Learners and teachers’ attitudes toward CALL and Dyned learning………… 11 CHAPTER 2: METHODOLOGY AND DATA ANALYSIS……………………… 13 2.1 Context of the study…………………………………………………………… 13 v 2.2.Subjects ………………………………………………………………………… 13 2.1.1 Teachers………………………………………………………………………………… 13 2.1.2 Students ………………………………………………………………………………… 13 2.3 The instrument………………………………………………………………… 14 2.3.1 Survey questionnaires………………………………………………………… 14 2.3.1.1 Questionnaires for students……………………………………………………… 14 2.3.1.2 Questionnaires for teachers……………………………………………………… 14 2.3.2 Interviews…………………………………………………………………… 14 2.3.2.2 Interviews for teachers……………………………………………………… 15 2.3.2.2 Interviews for students……………………………………………………… 15 2.4 Data collection and analysis…………………………………………………… 15 2.5 Findings from questionaires and interviews…………………………………… 16 2.5.1 Findings from questionaires and interviews for teachers…………………… 16 2.5.2 Findings from questionaires and interviews for students…………………… 25 2.6 Discussion……………………………………………………………………… 33 2.6.1 Teachers’ perception and attitudes…………………………………………… 33 2.6.2 Students’ understanding and attitudes………………………………………… 33 2.6.3 Inconsistency in the responses between teachers and students……………… 34 2.6.4 Benefits in the application of NDE at HUBT………………………………… 34 2.6.5 Problems in the application of NDE at HUBT……………………………… 35 PART C : CONCLUSIONS………………………………… 36 I Summary of the findings…………………………………………………………… 36 II Recommendations ……………………………………………………………… 36 III.Limitations of the study………………………………………………………… 37 IVSuggestions for further research………………………………………………… 38 REFERENCES………………………………………………………………………… 39 A PPENDIXES ……………………………………………………………………… … I Appendix Questionnaires for teacher …………… I Appendix Questionnaires for students … II Appendix Interview questions for teachers and students VI Appendix Interview transcripts with teachers VIII Appendix Interview transcripts with students XIII vi LIST OF ABBREVIATIONS Hanoi University of Business and Technology = HUBT Blended Learning = BL Computer assisted language learning = CALL New Dynamic English = NDE vii LIST OF FIGURES AND TABLES FIGURES Figure 1: Improvements of learners’ pronunciation……………………………….… 16 Figure 2: Most effective activity to practice pronunciation from teachers’ opinion .17 Figure 3: Most interesting activity to practice pronunciation from teachers’ opinion… 17 Figure 4: The workload of grammar in each module……………………………….…….18 Figure 5: Level of grammar exercises in each module……………………………… …18 Figure 6: Teachers’ views on tests…………………………………………….…… … 19 Figure 7: Reasons for teachers’ views on tests………………………………… …… 19 Figure 8: Working schedule in terms of content……………………………………… 20 Figure 9: Working schedule in terms of time allocation ………………………….… …20 Figure10: Workload of supplementary materials in each module……………….….… 21 Figure 11: Linguistic level of supplementary materials………………………………….21 Figure 12: Design of supplementary materials………………………………….……… 21 Figure13: Problems in delivering supplementary materials………………… ………… 22 Figure 14: Difficulties in delivering NDE lessons……………………… ………………24 Figure 15: Students’ English pronunciation after studying English………….………… 26 Figure 16: Most Effective activity for students to practice pronunciation…….….… .26 Figure17: Most effective activity for students to practice pronunciation……….… …26 Figure 18: Students’ enrichment of vocabulary……………………………………… …27 Figure19: Students’ ability to use vocabulary……………………………… ….…… 27 Figure 20: Complexity of grammar exercises in NDE………………………………… 28 Figure 21: Effectiveness of grammatical exercises in NDE………………………….…28 Figure 22: Kind of test that students like……………………………………………… 29 Figure23: Reasons that students like the test…………………………………… ….….29 Figure 24: The most difficult lesson…………………………………… … ……….…32 Figure25: The most interesting lesson……………………………………… …….……32 Figure 26: Students’ recommendations…………………………………… ….…… 33 viii TABLES Table : Vocabulary presented in each module………………………………….… ….17 Table 2: Teachers’ perception about skills development………… ……………….… 19 Table 3: Teachers’ perception of and attitudes to the difficulties…………………… 23 Table : Teachers’ perception of and attitudes to NDE’ benefits…………………… 24 Table 5: Teachers’ recommendations to improve NDE………………………………….25 Table 6: Students’ perception of and attitudes to skills development……….…….… 28 Table 7: Students’ attitudes to supplementary materials……………………… … … 30 Table 8: Students’ perception of and attitudes to NDE’ benefits ……….……… …….31 Table 9: Students’ perception of and attitudes to challenges ….……………………… 32 PART A INTRODUCTION I Rationale of the study These days computer use has increasingly penetrated into daily life It is not surprising to find a similar trend in the academic world Computers are becoming important components of education and the number of computers used at schools is increasing Although the notion of face-to-face classroom instruction is still prevalent in many organisational and educational settings, there seems a rush and enthusiasm for computer-based approach Computer technology can be regarded as an educational tool supporting language teaching In fact, a wide range of electronic technologies have been developed to supplement second language teaching and learning (Bas & Kuzucu, 2009;Warschauer, 1996) These technologies include hardware delivery methods such as audiotape recorders, videotape recorders, computers and the Internet In addition, there are many innovative electronic tools oriented to language such as speech production and recognition, text analysis, text translation, and software for visualisation and animation, electronic mail, list serve discussion groups, streaming audio and video and real-time synchronous as well as asynchronous communication opportunities that bring the target language environment to the learner (LeLoup & Porterio, 1997) One of the recent educational technology for language teaching, more specifically English Language teaching, is the Computer Assisted Language Learning (CALL) method which is combining with face to face classroom instruction to form a new Blended Learning(BL) model In recent years, some of the countries such as China, France, Malaysia, Korea, Miyanmar, Turkey and Vietnam are using an English Language teaching software named DynED, which stands for Dynamic English Education In these countries, this software is used in a way that it assists English language teaching process at schools In Vietnam, Dyned was first applied in Le Van Tam primary school in 2006 and got positive attitudes from teachers and students So far, Dyned has been experimenting in about 40 schools and universities And this program has been getting different opinions from administrators, teachers and students At Ha Noi University of Business and Technology(HUBT) after a year of experiment, the application of New Dynamic English(NDE) which is a Dyned component, has caused a controversy over its effectiveness among teachers and students Hence, this research is done to explore the perception of and attitudes of HUBT English teachers and their students toward the course with the hope to reveal the benefits and challenges in applying NDE so as to find ways to improve the course II Purpose The major aims of the study are as follows  To investigate what HUBT English teachers and students perceive and think of New Dynamic English  To discover benefits and challenges in the application of New Dynamic English at HUBT In light of the goals of the study, the following research questions are made: What are the HUBT English teachers’ understandings of and anttitudes to New Dynamic English ? What are benenits and difficulties in the application of New Dynamic English at HUBT? III Scope of the study The study involves HUBT English teachers from faculty of English, who have ever taken part in teaching New Dynamic English and their second year, non English majors as the main participants of the research Due to the limit of the study and constrain of time, my thesis would focus on investigating the teachers and students’ perception and attitudes toward NDE in terms of its content, organization, working schedule, supplementary materials and assessment IV Methodology of the study In order to collect reliable and valid data for the study, different methods were combined To start with, the literature review was extensively carried out, critically examining the relevant theoretical frame concerning Dyned program, computer assisted language learning method as well as the matters relating to attitudes in language learning Questionnaire which is time- saving and realiable means of data collection was employed primarily to obtain teachers and students’ evaluative comments on New Dynamic English programme, to reveal the difficulties they faced in the application of NDE as well as disclose their expectation for the improvement of the program at HUBT Interview, a method of collecting data to facilitate the results of the questionnaires, was conducted to get better insights about the issues from teachers The data would be coded into text for convenience V Significance of the study Firstly, the study serves as a reference source for HUBT administrators and English teaching staffs who are directly involved in New Dynamic English program and administrators as well as for students who are beneficiaries of the program They will be made aware of both benefits and challenges in the application of NDE and thus promote the quality & effectiveness of the program Secondly, it would make a contribution to the research area in the field of computer assisted learning, blended learning model as well as relating to the application of language learning software Finally, the thesis would also be helpful for those who share similar concern with the researcher PART B: DEVELOPMENT CHAPTER I : REVIEW OF LITERATURE 1.1 Computer assisted language learning(CALL) 1.1.1 What is CALL? According to Kocak (1997) CALL is “a term used by teachers and students to describe the use of computers as part of a language course” Hardisty & Windeatt (1989) give a more detailed definition that CALL is traditionally considered as a method of 'presenting, reinforcing and testing' particular language items in which the learner is first presented with a rule and some examples, and then answers a series of questions which test her/his knowledge of the rule and the computer gives appropriate feedback and awards a mark which may be stored for later inspection for the teacher and reference for the learner 1.1.2 Impacts of CALL on language learning and teaching In fact, CALL has a lot of effects on language learning in term of methods, context and language knowledge acquisition Higgins (1995) indicates that the value of CALL is that it allows a richer form of language exploration and the use of computers is compatible with a variety of approaches, methods and techniques This gives teachers much flexibility in their teaching practise According to Kramsch and Andersen (1999) multimedia technology can provide authentic cultural contexts that are important for language learning In other words it creates a supportive learning environment Kocak’s( 1997) study investigates the effectiveness of CALL on vocabulary learning and teaching and draws a conclusion that “computer instruction may offer a noteworthy experience to students with respect to vocabulary learning” Besides, CALL considerably influences the development of language skills As some researchers who advocated CALL programs, especially voice-interactive, say that CALL can improve learners' speaking skills (Ehsani, & Knodt, 1998; James, 1996) Moreover, computer technology in combination with a conferencing system is considered an effective means of providing goal-directed writing courses tailored to different learning styles (Cornu, Decker, Rosseel, & Vanderheiden, 1990) So, making complete use of CALL to develop integrative language skills is truly valuable in language teaching and learning However, working with the computer, as any other teaching aid, needs to be linked with ordinary classroom work and CALL lessons, like other lessons, need to be planned carefully because Jones & Fortescue (1987) warns that the computer is a resource and not a programmed-learning machine 1.1.3 Lance Knowles( 2004)’ CALL Long-Term Memory Working Memory Visual Buffer Auditory Buffer Conceptual Buffer The diagram shows how various processors in the brain communicate with the working memory, which is instrumental in the learning process The multiple processors such as the visual, auditory, conceptual and many others are involved and can be activated in well designed activites In addition, these processors work in parallel in the unconscious process and interact with the working memory and long term memory to interprete language In fact, when languages are repeated many times, neurons are connected, then create automaticity Making use of this working process of the brain, people create a new model of language learning naming Computer Assisted Language Learning( CALL) CALL can simultaneously activate auditory, phonological, and visual systems in the brain Lance Knowles (2004) states that CALL is an emerging force in language education and affirms that “CALL is now moving toward a blended model where the computer III Workload Heavy Sufficient Level Light Difficult Suitable Design Easy Well designed Badly designed What problems you have when conducting supplementary activities to extend the content of NDE in classrooms? a Multi-level students b Large class c Too many activities d Boring activities e Other………………………………………………………………………… 10 What problems you have when delivering NDE lessons? a Lack of computer skills b Difficulty in interaction between teachers and students c Shortage of time for each lesson d Other……………………………………………………………………… 11 In the process of teaching New Dynamic English, which type of lessons or activities appear to be the most difficult to conduct ? a Presentation lessons b Speech practice c Video interaction d Presentation lessons e Matrix games f Others………………………………………………………………………… 12 How does NDE benefit the teaching and learning English at HUBT? a NDE creates a relaxing atmosphere to motivate the target language use b NDE promotes students’ needs and autonomy c NDE develop integrated English language skills, especially oral skills? d NDE makes use of modern equipment and technology to support lessons IV 13 What you recommend to improve the NDE program at HUBT? a Reduce the workload for each lesson b Increase time for each module c eliminate some parts in each module d.design a separate test software based on the contents of NDE e set up a group to evaluate the supplementary materials f other suggestions …………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………… V APPENDIX Phiếu điều tra cho sinh viên Tôi Mai Thị Nga, giảng viên hữu Khoa tiếng Anh, Trường Đại học Kinh doanh Công nghệ Hà Nội Tôi thực đề tài ngiên cứu “Nhận thức Tthái độ Giáo viên Sinh viên việcỨng dụng Giáo trình New Dynamic English Trường HUBT” Các câu trả lời mà em cung cấp quan trọng cơng trình ngiên cứu Các thơng tin liệu điều tra sử dụng cho ngiên cứu, khơng dùng cho mục đích khác Xin chân thành cảm ơn hợp tác em Các em tick vào lựa chọn Sau học New Dynamic English, việc phát âm tiếng Anh em có tiến khơng? a Tiến nhiều b Tiến chút c Không tiến chút Hoạt động giúp em luyện âm hiệu nhất? Hoạt động thú vị để luyện âm? Hoạt động Thú vị Hiệu Nghe câu mẫu Nhắc lại câu mẫu Tự ghi âm đối chiếu Hoạt động khác…………………………………………………… ……………………………………………………………………………………… New Dynamic English giúp nâng cao vốn từ vựng Và khả sử dụng từ học nào? Vốn từ vựng a Tăng lên nhiều b Tăng thêm chút VI c Không tăng thêm Khả sử dụng từ vựng a Có thể sử dụng thành thạo từ học b Chỉ biết sử dụng số từ c Chỉ thuộc lịng máy móc Em có nhận xét hệ thống tập rèn luyện cấu trúc chương trình New Dynamic English? Độ khó Tính hiệu Phù hợp Q khó Q dễ Hiệu Khơng hiệu Em nhận thấy kĩ cải thiện nhiều nhất/ kĩ cải thiện sau học New Dynamic English? Kĩ Nghe Nói Đọc Viết TT Nhiều Ít Em thích hình thức kiểm tra cuối kì loại hình kiểm tra đây? a Các kiểm tra thiết kế sẵn NDE b Kiểm tra trắc nghiệm máy c Kiểm tra viết giấy Lý em thích: a Đề thi dễ b Thời gian thi ngắn c Lí khác………………………………………………………… VII Em có ý kiến hoạt động bổ trợ cho NDE ngồi phịng máy áp dụng trường : speaking, reading, writing grammar? Các khía cạnh Kĩ Speaking Reading Writing Grammar Mức độ Về khối lượng Quá nhiều Vừa đủ Quá Tính hấp dẫn Hấp dẫn Nhàm chán Tính hiệu Hiệu thiết thực Không hiệu không thiết thực Độ khó Quá khó Vừa sức Quá dễ Việc thực hành kĩ tiếng Anh với chương trình New Dynamic English mang lại lợi ích cho em? a Giúp em luyện phát âm b Phát triển kĩ nghe nói c Phát triển kĩ giao tiếp d Giúp em hình thành tính tự quản e Tạo khơng khí vui vẻ thối mái học f.ý kiến khác………………………………………………………………… VIII Loại hình học chương trình NDE gây cho em hứng thú hay khó khăn ? Loại hình học Gây hứng thú Gây khó khăn Presentation lessons Speech recognition practise Dictations Matrix vocabulary Video interaction 10 Thách thức lớn em thực hành chương trình New Dynamic English gì? a Điểm study score đạt u cầu b Hồn thành phần trăm đứng thời hạn c Làm mastery tests đạt yêu cầu d Tóm tắt lại nội dung học tiếng Anh f Thi kết thúc module g Ý kiến khác………………………………………………………………… 11 Em mong muốn điều tiếp tục học chương trình New Dynamic English? a Tăng thêm thời gian để hoàn thành module b Được giáo viên hướng dẫn tỉ mỉ c Giảm bớt khối lượng chương trình d ý kiến khác………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………… IX QUESTIONNAIRES FOR STUDENTS IN ENGLISH I am an English teacher at Hanoi University of Business and Technology At present, I am conducting my thesis research on “ Teachers and Students’ Perception and Attitudes toward the Application of New Dynamic English at HUBT Your responses are very important to the success of the survey The data will be used only for the aim of the research Your cooperation is highly appreciated Thank you very much Please tick your choice for each question Question one : How does your English pronunciaton progress when taking NDE? a a lot b a little c not at all Question two: What is the most effective activity to practise your pronunciation? And which one is the most interesting to practise ? Activities Most interesting Most effective Listening to the model sentences Repeating the model sentences Self- recording and comparing with model sentences Question three: How does NDE help you to increase your vocabulary and your ability of using it ? Your enrichment of vocabulary a increase a lot b increase a little c not increase at all X your abibility to use vocabulary a can use a lot of vocabulary provided b can use some of vocabulary provided c memorise mechanically d Question : What you think of the system of grammatical structure exercises in NDE? Complexity of grammar exercises Too difficult suitable Too Effectiveness of grammatical exercises Effective ineffective easy Question five : Which skill is the most improved and which one is the least improved after studying NDE? Skill Listening Speaking Reading Writing Ranking The most The least Question six: Which kind of the following tests would you like to take? And why? Kinds of test that you like a Designed tests in NDE b computer based multiple choice tests c paper based written tests Reasons that you like: c easy tests d Short time of testing e others……………………………………………………… XI Question seven: What you think of the supplimentary materials for NDE applying at your university: speaking, reading, writing and grammar? Aspects Speaking Reading Writing Grammar Skills Workload Effectiveness Degrees Heavy Sufficient Light Effective Ineffective Level Difficult Suitable Easy Interest Interesting Uninteresting Question eight : What benefits you get from NDE? Benefits from NDE percentage a.Helps to practice pronunciation b.Develop oral skills c.Develops communicative skills d.Helps to create autonomy e.Create a relaxing atmosphere and joy f.Others Question nine: Which type of lesson you find the most interesting or the most difficult? Types of lessons Presentation lessons Speech recognition practise Dictations Matrix vocabulary Most interesting Most difficult XII Video interaction Question ten: What challenges you have when studying NDE? Challenges Percentage a Get high study score b Complete percentage at the dead line c Take mastery tests as required d Summarize contents of lessons in English e Take an exam to finish the module f.Other Question eleven : What recommendations you make to improve NDE? a Increase time for each module b are carefully instructed by teachers for each lesson c reduce the workload of the lesson d others………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………………………………………… ………………………………………………………… XIII APPENDIX INTERVIEW QUESTIONS Interview question for teachers Have you ever done anything in order to find out the different benefits between traditional classroom learning and blended learning in NDE? What difficulties you have when delivering NDE lessons as well as conducting supplementary materials.? In your opinion, what problems your students face when learning NDE? In general, you think all English teachers at HUBT welcome the new English program? What recommendations you have to improve NDE course? Interview questions for students What benefits did you get from learning NDE? Do you face any difficulties in the process of learning NDE? What kinds of lessons or activities you like or dislike both in the language lab and in the classroom? Do you want to continue learning with NDE? XIV APPENDIX Interview transcript with teachers Question 1: Have you ever done anything in order to find out the different benefits between traditional classroom learning and blended learning in NDE? Teacher 1: well, I think learning NDE helps my students pronounce English better than before, because they have a lot of chances to individually practise sounds through repeating and self recording as well as comparing with models which are limited in traditional classrooms Teacher 2: NDE makes English teachers more dynamic and flexible I mean, teachers can blend different teaching approaches Teacher 3: Each has its own benefits It is much easier to deliver lessons in traditional class room learning model because our students got used to it BL in NDE is very new, it needs time to experience Question : What difficulties you have when delivering NDE lessons as well as conducting supplementary materials.? Teacher 1: I often felt stressed when delivering NDE lessons in multilevel classes When I explained something in Enlgish, just one or two students understood what I meant and the rest just sat and appeared to understand nothing Besides, With poor background, our students are not able to deal with such a difficult and huge workload It seems that the supplementary materials are not compatible with the content of NDE Teacher 2: Oh, it is very difficult to cover a wide range of activities in a lesson Sometimes I feel exhausted Teacher 3: I tried my best to complete such a long lesson and heavy workload in a limited time and I really felt worried when thinking of too many activities in a short time Question : In your opinion, what problems your students face learning NDE? when XV Teacher 1: Due to students’ bad grammar foundation, they need to practise more grammar tructure exercises to be able to improve productive skills like speaking Teacher 2: My students have difficulty in comprehending the content without teachers’ explanation of words and grammar Teacher 3: My students refuse to interact as instructed because as they are used to traditional approach Question 4: In general, you think all English teachers at HUBT welcome the new English program? Teacher 1: I myself welcome But I think not all Teacher 2: Well, I’m afraid not Teacher 3: I myself find NDE gives me an innovative opportunity in my teaching methodology But if you would like to know more, you’d better ask the other teachers for their opinions Question 5: What recommendations you have to improve NDE course? Teacher 1: it would be better if we reduced the workload and increase time to complete each module In addition, I think the requirement of completing 80% of the lesson is not valid in some classes Many students, despite reaching the completion value, even can not thoroughly understand the content, and they can not speak or summarize the content without text support It would be better to adapt these things Teacher 2: We should require students to record, to compare and strictly check their performance instead of requiring them to complete 80% of each module or getting high scores Teacher 3: In my opinion, it is very necessary to have a task force to evaluate the the tests and supplementary materials : XVI APPENDIX Interview transcript with students Question : What benefits did you get from learning NDE? Student 1: Many benefits I think Learning NDE help me pronounce better Student 2: In my opinion, presenting and speaking in front of the class made me more confident and communicate better Student 3: Repeating models many times helped me speak English fluently and smoothly” Student 4: Except for my listening skill, nothing else beneficial Question 2: Do you face any difficulties in the process of learning NDE? Student 1: Of course I didn’t know how to learn at first Let me see, well, a lot of exercises within a limited time caused me stressed Then, how to get high study scores? But now I become familiar and everything seems to be more simple Student 2: : we are pressed to complete a great deal of workload, percentage and study scores within a limited time so that we seem not to pay much attention to the quality of practise Student 3: I met difficulties with my speaking tests, without clues in the speaking tests, I could not my test Moreover I was afraid of taking a writing test because I did not understand much about grammatical structures So, my scores were very low Student 4: We are being put under much pressure to complete the program within a limited time and I feel over stressed with NDE study and not want to study anymore Question : What kinds of lessons or activities you like or dislike both in the language lab and in the classroom? Student 1: As I said before, I met difficulties at first, especially speech recognition lessons But now I like this lessons if we thoroughly practice the presentation lessons, there are hardly difficulties in the speech lessons Besides, video interaction lessons are real situations in daily life and we can participate directly in the talk Oh, grammar XVII exercises in NDE are very interesting However, I not like the activities ouside the language lab Student 2: I like video interaction lessons, grammar exercises but I don’t like speaking activities in the classrooms, so boring and repeated Student : I like grammar exercises but I felt tired of repeating activities in the classroom, nothing new over a year” Student 4: I not like any activities It really boring Question 4: Do you want to continue learning with NDE? Student 1: Of course Student 2: If the university can reduce the workload and increase time for each module, I think we should continue Student 3: I want to continue, but if the teacher can coach us more carfully, it would be better Student 4: I think we should stop